Suggestion for AppWalls and Interstitials

Currently I am getting my main revenue from StartApp, with icon and exit-ad, and AdMob, with banners:

StartApp icons: 50%
AdMob banners: 40%
StartApp exit-ads: 10%

I tried LeadBolt, AppFlood, AirPush, InMobi and RevMob to try to get some revenue from AppWalls and Interstitials. Numbers are always so low, that it comes better to avoid them and leave the user happy.
I came to an opinion that for my app the CPC model is the best one.

Now I want to try again to add appwalls as interstitials, and interstitials themselves, using as I said a CPC model network.
What do you suggest me?

Thank you.

mobilecore interinitials(offerwall) look beautiful…I do not know how good their payment is,yet…

I don’t want to try strange solutions anymore… wasted too much already… I want something solid and well experimented.

Is there anyone that can suggest me a solid solution for CPC interstitials and/or appwalls?
AppBrain maybe?

AppBrain are good, but only when combined with others. I am trialing AppFlood since lots of people have said good things about them. Millennial Media are a good bet too, if you can stomach net45-60.

AppBrain is good, but they dont let you access to their offerwall. You need to have good app and good reasons, and after they will approve your app, then you will be able to get their offerwall, otherwise only alert dialog. And, the payment is paypal only… didnt see wire transfer.
And there is Tapjoy (strange that people here doesnt pay attention to this company). They have rewarded offerwall and non-rewarded offerwall. You could integrate their non-rewarded offerwall. They have wire+paypal.
Both companies are well tested.)

Daler, TapJoy is a CPI model company, or is it CPC?

When the question is about offerwall how comes it can be CPC?? Of course it is CPI model, dont know any offerwall service with CPC model…

Uhm… I thought that appwalls could come also on a pay-for-click model, I don’t see any problem on it. I can try TapJoy anyway for appwalls/offerwalls: is it better than LeadBolt?
And what about interstitials? Do you know who makes interstitials on a cpc model? I tested AdMob, but I think that interstitials are allowed only for a small number of apps, probably based on their rating: I could install the interstitials only on one of my apps, and anyway I did not have big revenues…

For interstitials what is better among these (they appear to use the CPC model but I never tried)?
Millenial Media

it is better then LeadBolt for sure. Currently I have Leadbolt Html offerwall, so when you click on some games from the list, before it will bring you to the market for that particular app/game which has been clicked, in addition it gives to you some other apps to download(in my case it showed to download some antivirus), so u cancel it and only after that you will get in to the market. Probably, I will turn off their offerwall… Im just looking for some alternative right now. Unfortunately I cant use Tapjoy 2 times, I use it to reward my users so cant use non-rewarded one…

For CPC interstitials dont know, never tried. But Milenial has terrible net65 payment, which is horrible and will never use them. About the rest have no idea, maybe someone else in the forum will clear it.

PS. Can u be more specific about admob interstitials… I thought without invitations you cant install it at all

Well that is what I was thinking too… then once I tried to implement them and… poof! they appeared and started earning (very little, tho).
So I tried on another app… and no way… they didn’t show… so I suppose that there is some automatic method that allows using interstitials. I don’t think I never received invitations or communications by Google, and anyway I could implement them only on one app, so it is not developer-oriented, but app-oriented.
But I could be wrong.


Do you use Tapjoy in apps or just games? What sort of eCPM do you get with your games/apps?

In case of Tapjoy to calculate eCPM is a little bit wrong… I use it in my app to unlock some feature, so those who wants they download some games/apps from offerwall anyway, without any choice. So as more people will download as higher eCPM:
Offerwall views: 32 Clicks: 8 Conversions: 1 Revenue: $0.29 eCPM: $9.06 CTR: 25.0% CVR: 12.5%
The stat for today so far…

And for the May month so far:
Offerwall views: 1,031 Clicks: 148 Conversions: 18 Revenue: $4.21 eCPM: $4.08 CTR: 14.4% CVR: 12.2%

So in my app not much motivated people… anyway it is reliable and depends on app’s popularity

A better metric would be comparing Tapjoy earned revenue to daily active users (DAU).

If you have 3000 DAU and earn $15 or so that would probably place you close to what Leadbolt AppWalls plus AppBrain plus Admob banner etc. would pay (on the better day - ad revenue seems to be down recently).

The revenue with Airpush and StartApp seems to be higher as suggested by others here (though should factor in loss of downloads, and reduced ratings due to notification ads etc.).

The question is - with Tapjoy if one can get like $100 revenue per day from 3000 DAU.

Or even $30 revenue per day from 3000 DAU - that would be $1 revenue per 100 DAU.

$1 revenue from Tapjoy would mean about 20 tapjoy offers (of the “download and run this app” type) were completed - since these pay about $0.05 to $0.085 per offer.

But 20 tapjoy offers were completed for 100 DAU is a very high conversion rate to expect !! Now it could be that some of these offers were multiple ones done by the same user - so maybe you could say that it was 10 users earning 20 tapjoy offers - from the total 100 DAU daily active users.

The question is - can your app convince 10% of your daily users to complete one Tapjoy offer at least ?

The numbers do not add up (in terms of comparison with ads) - and suggests that ads may continue to be a strong revenue component. And in-app payment solutions like GetJar and Tapjoy may supplement it but may not blow the ad revenue out of the water.

Currently the ad networks - Admob banner ads + AppBrain exit appwall + Leadbolt AppWall can generate close (or half of this on better days and quarter or less on low revenue days like is happening these days).

With Airpush notification ads + StartApp (home screen icon + browser home page + browser default search page) - it seems the revenue is considerably more - but you have to contend with the negative impact on ratings, and on downloads (I don’t have a clue how much that can be).

But it would seem that currently you CANNOT do better than these ad networks with the GetJar/Tapjoy type of schemes.

This suggests also that an app should perhaps NOT rely completely on the Tapjoy stuff for revenue (for example if it features no ads).

One may then ask that why then do IN-APP payments (Google Payments) work out well - the answer may lie in the ease of payment when users pay with cash.

True, that users may not want to pay (on android notoriously uneasy about paying cash - less so on Apple products it is suggested) - however one area where GetJar/Tapjoy CANNOT compete with IN-APP payments with cash is the “whales”. With GetJar/Tapjoy you just CANNOT charge the whales.

With cash there is great concentration of power - it is like gasoline for cars - vs. batteries for cars - i.e. it is MUCH easier for users to pay $5 for something which they like (a must-have app perhaps) - than earn $5 worth of GetJar/Tapjoy stuff !!

To earn $5 on GetJar/Tapjoy you would have to download and run about … 50 apps !! That is clearly not something a user would do on a every-other day basis !

And this is the value of cash payments - there are apps which offer coins for $9.99 - and even more.

And there are users who can pay such cash.

This SEVERELY limits the value and prospects of the GetJar/Tapjoy type schemes - sure they may work for GetJar/Tapjoy - but from developer point of view they can be nothing more than one-of-many ways to earn revenue from an app.

All this discussion was for 3000 DAU apps - and of course if you have a hit app, that makes it possible to earn respectable income just from banner ads even !

But the question being examined in this post is - how to make the second tier of apps workable and profitable for developers ?

Even these 3000 DAU (or 1500 DAU) apps are typically ones which are not complete crap - and have taken 2-3 months to make.

If the economics do not work out for this second-tier - then the ecosystem will ONLY survive if there is HYPE of riches on the app markets - as happens with entrepreneurial efforts - i.e. the society motivates folks in college, high school to pursue arcane efforts (often low paying i.e. engineering, science - compared to the jobs that rich folks may suggest to THEIR kids - who maybe pushed towards finance etc.). This societal hype allows magazines to highlight successful entrepreneurs and NOT the failure entrepreneurs (just like hollywood and the trade press will highlight the up and coming actresses - but not the down and out ones - who probably outnumber the successful ones by 10x).

The question is - can such a dynamic work for the app industry ? Can Google and others motivate new and upcoming developers sufficiently so that the societal effort to train folks for app building is justified ? Will convincing 90% of the folks building apps to continue to build apps survive if only 10% earn the bulk of the income ?

My own feeling is that it will ALWAYS be beneficial if the revenue prospects could be improved - I would think the current revenue figures should probably be 10x the numbers we currently have - they are obviously not going to become 10x from ads alone - or from GetJar/Tapjoy. But they CAN be so from IAP - thanks to the “whales”.

Unfortunately Google has chosen to not allow some locations to earn from the whales (Google Payment not available everywhere) - what is odd is that Apple is able to do so - so why not Google ? Why so slow ?

We saw above that $1 from 100 DAU is close to what ad networks will give - on good days.

However, when you use your android phone - how much would you be willing to pay the developer just to download their app ? Would you pay $0.01 ? It would be NOTHING - sure you would pay that (if the payment process was seamless). Would you pay $0.05 - possibly - and possibly this would be the high end of what you would pay for a blind download.

$0.05 per download would be equivalent to $5 per 100 DAU (i.e. 5x higher).

So it is clear that the potential for revenue lies in cash payment - all the other avenues (ads, push notifications, home screen icons) - have other constraints - i.e. pissing off users with uncertain and sometimes unsafe ad types.

Now the question - would it be fair if developers were given revenue for download of their apps (say if user used it for more than 2 days - this way the crap scam apps would not earn revenue).

It seems unlikely now, but change the question and ask - what if GOOGLE was offering these apps for download - for populating of their app store ?

Would Google have charged for the downloads ?

I would suggest they WOULD have - currently the ability to populate an app store - not just with best-of-breed apps - but with all sorts of apps - would be a GARGANTUAN tasks which NO company could do efficiently.

Yet if Google WERE able to offer such apps - it would likely not be a free download.

So the question to ask is - why is Google expecting the free download model to work for app developers ?

A factor not included in this discussion is the growth of mobile user base - this MAY be the factor which changes the whole discussion - as the 10x factor so sought out above MAY emerge from the 10x rise in user base.

The other factor is that - and this will happen with the “success” of the app store - that if it is profitable it WILL become populated by more and more apps - and app discovery will remain a big obstacle i.e. there will remain some element of “zero-sum” game (i.e. not every developer can win) type of situation.

These factors are esp. true for apps which are NOT games - and which will never have the same user base, or the persistent usage or model (i.e. are not like a Las Vegas casino).

This probably does not bother Google etc. because they probably give a damn what types of apps populate the App Store - as long as they get the revenues. With all top apps perhaps becoming games and Las Vegas casino type apps.

The question is - is there any interest in making sure that tool apps and other apps get some monetization ?

I think Google policies also don’t help much if they force apps to conform to some model - for example that apps may not restrict use (for example time-limited models etc.). I am not saying these will solve anything, but it may hinder development of new models that may emerge from developer experimentation (which happens in parallel with thousands of developers doing their own thing - vs. Google doing serial changes to policy).

You kind of went off track, but still you made some very valid points!
I’ve got a great game in the works, which I’m planning to use IAP/Tapjoy with, including in app ads. Maybe banners in menus and Interstitials during natural breaks etc.
I thought Google covered a large portion of the globe for payments now? Do you know which countries/continents are still not supported?
I heavily agree with you about the developer competition. There are so many more developers on Android now than when I first started developing, which is expected of course from Android’s flat out success. Apparently the new Play Store APK is much better at helping users discover apps through different techniques like friend’s downloads and better search filtering etc.
I believe these alternative markets like Amazon,Samsung Apps and the Chinese markets are becoming more enticing now too, since Android has taken over to such an extent.

Google payment is available in a lot of countries now - the issue is Google’s slow expansion of payment option for developers. Meanwhile Apple is able to pay developers in these locations. So this is a tax on those locations and developers in a way. How could a mega-company like Google not have the resources to offer what Apple is able to offer ?


Beppi mentioned some numbers:
StartApp icons: 50%
AdMob banners: 40%
StartApp exit-ads: 10%

Could you give a ballpark figure for the type of revenue contribution you have seen (guesstimates) - for Tapjoy revenues vs. banner ad revenues for the same app etc.

That would be a good indication of the in-app GetJar/Tapjoy payment model’s contribution potential.

As far as know Apple sells apps themselves while in Google you are the seller. It complicates things for us - developers - and saves Google a lot of money probably (making it harder to support more countries though).

That is an interesting explanation of the difference.

The question is, Apple sells apps themselves and pocket 30%.

Meanwhile Google has developers sell direct (?) - but STILL pockets 30%.

Something doesn’t add up here.

Perhaps it is related to Google not wanting to be responsible for the (legality, safety) of the apps - thus they keep themselves out of the loop.

Meanwhile Apple commits itself to the safety of the app - and thus has to devote extra effort to review each app.

Both issues may thus be related.

However in one case, Apple is doing some real effort - which may justify their 30% take as a reseller.

Compared to Apple, the Google take of 30% seems like a ripoff ?

The list of supported countries for merchants:

Currently, there are 32 (supported) countries on the list (out of almost 200 countries in the World).

Quoting Google (see the link above): “We’re working hard to add more countries, but we’re unable to provide any guidance on timelines.”

Countries added in April 2012: Czech Republic, Israel, Poland, and Mexico.
Added in October 2012: India.

Although Google is working hard on the issue, they have added only 5 countries last year. Continuing with peace ~5 /year, the work should be completed by the 2045! :cool:

Well, as a developer from a small (unsupported) country, this is making me a bit unhappy…