Anyone else here make more than $25k a day?

I would be happy to discuss issues like this with anyone making over $10k a day. Please private message me if you do.

Thank you.

He may have multiple apps (like 100+ apps). While you are making that or close to it with one app.

I recall when you posted on the forum with a “new app” post - I had checked it out superficially then. I checked it out recently again - and was surprised that even the first level is quite hard (for a game to be played by the “general public”).

I found that quite interesting - as it goes against the general trend of very easy first levels. Perhaps you can get away with it because the controls are reasonably self-explanatory and the app actually does base performance on manual dexterity. While other puzzle games usually have to “explain” the format also.

Typical DAU ?

I ask because it allows us to scale for session length - I have 5-6K DAU (for 2 apps) which gives $20 (± $2) with Admob banner and interstitials these days - I had turned off other interstitial choices. But my session length is like 45 seconds !! (novelty app type).

Scaling this $20 to $5K (x250) would require DAU of 1500K. HOWEVER, it would be much less than that if the session length was longer (mine is 45 seconds average - should be much higher for “games”).

So we can maybe come up with a “universal” metric for (DAU x session length) - as being sort of a “canonical” measure of “revenue potential” (assuming are using Admob banner + interstitials as a base). Though there will be a lot of variable factors on choices made by developer - how often intestitials are shown etc. - but I mean to say the “order of magnitude” figures SHOULD be quite stable.

So if folks can also contribute these numbers (for any one or more of their apps):

DAU
session length (as reported by Flurry or Google Analytics) - though this only is the AVERAGE but just doing ballpark figures here
revenue/day

Then the (DAU x sessionlength) / dailyrevenue - should be a “universal” constant (for Admob banner + interstitials) - in an “order of magnitude” type of way.

So for me that would be:

(EDIT: corrected a mistake in the arithmetic)
6K x 45 seconds / $20
= 13.5K DAU seconds per dollar

or something like that … :slight_smile:

I am not measuring sesion lentght, but avarage DAU is 250-150k

I noticed a few things about competitors - thanks to appannie.com stats. Might be of interest to people here about HOW copy-cat apps, and savvy publishers ride the wave of rising keywords (by incorporating them into their URL etc.).

I noted in looking at appannie.com for your app:
Construction City - Daily Ranks | App Annie
(you need to signup with appannie.com for free - to see the graphs for each country)

versus the paid one:
Construction City no ads - Daily Ranks | App Annie

That while the free one is falling (as it’s 30 day period is expiring perhaps) in the U.S. (while it is strong in Slovakia/Israel etc.) - that the PAID version is RISING in the U.S. etc.

This MIGHT bode well for your PAID app in the longer-term (or perhaps for IAP introduction in your free version). I however have no experience in this, so this is just observation.

COMPETITORS
A number of competitors also seem to have emerged - I don’t know if your app was also capitalizing on some trend (or your app was the first one) - but there are some apps which have appeared after your app:

COMPETITOR1 - MAXIM GAMES
This one is trying to capitalize on your publisher name (heavyfall) and your game name (!) in it’s url:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.heavyfall.constructioncity.game

And it is a jigsaw puzzle type of game it seems …

You can see that it is rising rapidly in the rankings (though not close to you) - perhaps because they ARE gaming your publisher name and app name.
Construction Excavator City - Daily Ranks | App Annie

So this might confirm the story that the url having the right keywords has an impact on Google rankings as well.

They have not stopped at that - they have ANOTHER game:

Construction Building City - Google Play Top Apps | App Annie

This one is not doing as well (in the rankings).

COMPETITOR2 - subway surfers 007 (they are capitalizing on Subway Surfers game name even !)

This one seems to have a video which looks very similar to yours - they maybe using your image as a jigsaw puzzle (I did not check).

construction green city - Google Play Top Apps | App Annie

Plus they are using your app name and publisher name ALSO in their URL.

This one is not doing that well either in rankings.

Another one by them (similar issues):
construction fastest city - Google Play Top Apps | App Annie

COMPETITOR3

construction virtual city - Google Play Top Apps | App Annie

This one is doing better in rankings (a bit like COMPETITOR1).

BTW it TOO is doing well in rankings in Slovakia, Israel (like your app).

If you look at this publisher you can see the type of apps they are producing:

Power MobApps | App Annie - Publisher Rankings, Downloads and Revenues

Using this “universal” factor calculation (for DAU = 250K, dailyrevenue = $5K):

DAU x sessionlength / dailyrevenue
= 200K x sessionlength / $5000 = 13.5K DAU seconds per dollar (taken from calculation in previous post)

suggesting:
sessionlength = 337 seconds (or 5.6 minutes) - this is roughly a ballpark figure

Maybe later if you ever get a measure of session length (average) you could confirm if is correct (ballpark).

I have just noticed my Vungle dashboard show session length as well, however I do not know how to interpretate it, since there is no unit, but I believe its in seconds.

Yet again it varies a lot,

  1. highest one was 15743 (average in a day) - it would be a lot!
  2. lowest one was around 700

it picks usually same day, or day after bigger updates introducing new sets of levels (21 new)

@adforandroidapps I really liked your competitor analysis. It’s a shame those guys are resorting to those tactics to rank higher. Don’t know if Matthewek can do anything about it as in reporting to Google for something like misleading the users…

I doubt those competitors are harming the original app (more below) - and complaining to Google may incur some “unforeseen” events - like someone pointed out here that they complained about some app and that wound up banning them both or some such thing (maybe someone can confirm). Though I suspect if it is a reddit style (BadApps forum there etc.) attack on the competitors that might spare the original app. I don’t know if the original author would want to get into that - I suspect he would make far better use of his time (and temperament) to stick to his guns doing what he is doing (not like some of us who discuss this ad infinitum :-)).

HOWEVER, one never knows if Google has a “if more than one app starts to show same keywords then have them SHARE the eyeballs” - this is the sort of thing I have seen with 2 of my apps, where the code base is similar - and Descriptions were similar - one of them never made it to rankings - while other remains in the rankings for many countries (at least in top 500) and occasionally in the top 100. I have wondered about this and one ALGORITHMIC way that this could occur is that Google may do some “competitive” devaluing of keywords depending on how many apps have that or some such thing (?)

In any case specifically for the app being discussed here - one can see that the rankings for MOST countries started falling around Nov 5 - which is around the time the competitor apps appeared:
Construction City - Rank History | App Annie

BUT, the general graph IS generally following the CLASSIC parabolic shape we have come to expect (which Google probably engineers it’s algorithms to ensure it has some such effect) - where a new app rises and then falls - in a parabolic fashion almost. The fall happening usually after the first 30 day “honeymoon” period which Google Play allows. So it could be argued that the falloff in rankings for the app in question is following the EXPECTED curve.

EDIT: I would guess that on the falling end of the parabola (peak being at 30 days) - even though the rankings fall, they will recover, and then the app may see a slow rise back up (for U.S. - for Slovakia, Israel etc. where it is in top 5 it seems to be maintaining it’s position).

If so, there may not be that much cannibalistic effect if other apps are using the keywords that are associated with this app. But maybe someone has better clarity on whether “keyword dilution” happens if users use the same keyword. In any case if a user searches for the EXACT keyword the top-placed app will probably not be affected - as these copy-cat apps will never approach the popularity of the original …

Thanks @adforandroidapps for great analysis.

Here`s are some clarifications, my paid app version, was published much later - like 2 weeks after free version (which was my mistake, loosing possible revenue)

You are right about those “competitors” - I am aware of those copy gays, I even contacted and received respond from one of them (Chinise Girl)

“ I’m copy paste 40 apps only can earn USD15 daily… We’re like a company, join the class, but the template, then start making ‘easy’ money… The company now have more then 150 members…”

“I know, some of my senior got banned… I follow all the way which my senior teaching me, should be no problem… And maybe ‘god’ want us to meet up, so let me make the silly mistake…  Anyway, thanks for your concern and forgive… Happy that can know you, maybe I should take a course for learning how to make a ‘real’ app”

From what I have seen, they were reported on reddit, because all their apps are the same (rubbish anyway)

Sounds like a sweatshop where they are churning out these things - same as some folks with 100+ apps but done at industrial scale level maybe (!) - her “senior” is teaching her - so there is a whole cadre of them “managing” these things.

Yes, they are shameless :cool:

Very shy to tell, because your app ‘construction city’ earning me good income, I’m going to publish 2 more, please don’t get mad about me, and I sure that you also found that there got over 10 apps just as same as what I’m doing… Yap, maybe you can try for your new apps, within 48 hours you will see your apps get in top 100…

No, I just have 1 acc, because I’m still ‘new’, I just join the group on October… I’m making USD15 daily now, and my senior can make USD450 daily…

I agree with you on the session length effect on income. I have just 1 app with daily active users of around 2000 for more than a year now. It makes around 50-60$ from admob which i believe is very good for 2000 users per day. If i add appbrain i can add easily extra 15-20$(for now its disabled)

Using this “universal” factor calculation (for DAU = 2000, dailyrevenue = $60):

DAU x sessionlength / dailyrevenue
= 2000 x sessionlength / $60 = 13.5K DAU seconds per dollar (taken from calculation in previous post)

suggesting:
sessionlength = 405 seconds (or 6.75 minutes) - this is roughly a ballpark figure

Maybe later if you ever get a measure of session length (average) you could confirm if is correct (ballpark).

WordHero’s metric is: 9900 DAU seconds per USD.

Since lower is better, it would be interesting to see how low you could get this number with > 10k DAU (to smooth things out) and banners only…

Yes, this might actually be a fairly anonymous way for people to report the performance of their app - since you don’t have to reveal either your DAU or your revenue (!)

i dont think session length should be incorporated into revenue calculation. it all depends on a lot of factors, returning vs new, ctr, ads it self. if your app is a chess game you will obviously have high session length which doesnt mean you will create more revenue for yourself. am i understanding this correct?

Session length should be in there. What you end up with is a number XYZ seconds/USD. ie: how many seconds of user time it costs your users so that you can earn 1 USD.

This allows someone with 1000 DAU and short session length to compare how well their app monetizes with someone else who has 100k DAU and long session length.

ah okay, now I see why you would want that number lower. in that case: DAU*session lenght(sec)/revenue($)

my number would be 5050 DAU seconds per dollar from yesterday’s stats… It used to be closer to half of that when admob was giving decent revenues two weeks ago.

I see couple things wrong/unusual with that:

  1. My app has not saturated enough and is not popular yet
  2. I am a genius at monetizing through ads, LOL

I am swinging towards 1st choice

Also… the number is meaningless without knowing HOW you are monetizing. ie: banners will monetize lower than full-screen video ads