It depends based on the location.
I am staying in capital city and and paying rent of $417 monthly including water and power bills for an apartment worth $210000.
$40000 worth apartment in india might give $223 to $300 monthly rent.
When it comes to basic aminities, prices starts from very very low to very very high in India.
Well so far i made savings of $101492 from my android+website+youtube earnings and i think still there is scope to make more.
These days my per day revenue reduced to $230. But i am about to publish 8 high quality apps in 2 months of time.
I hope that will change the scene better.
I used to make $500+ before March 2016.
Sorry but no, you can’t. don’t take it personally but your programming skills are non-existent and without them you can’t do shit nowadays.
Most of you people are missing big picture - Google taken a stand and doubled down on market spam (or in generally new apps quality), in part directly (by introducing approval and review process, agressive IP violation detection and banning out-of-app advertising formats) but mainly indirectly by tweaking customers end-user experience with Google Play (which affect app discoverability).
Overwhelming majority of developers frequenting this forum made shitload (relatively) of money during (as you put it) ‘golden era’ by pumping market with tons of crap and relying on predatory advertising to make money. What’s funny that most of you don’t understand what the f*ck happened and what’s happening now.
What’ve happened was a pure luck (or fortunate coincidence), anyone could make decent money by producing endless stream of crap (or even rely on updates in early days). Why? Because Google’s been promoting new applications and since earnings where only dependant on downloads number, quality of application didn’t matter at all (even retention wasn’t important). This of course quickly spiralled out of control turning market into shithole (making lives of honest developer much tougher in process). So Google taken stand and banned out-of-app advertising. Even after that there were some easy money to be made with shifty techniques (non-closable interstitials, exit adds, some shady formats like lockscreen ads and alike), also there were existing user base which can be exploited in cross-promotion schemes to milk them off even further (admittedly it was harder than before to make money since application had to have minimal retention and usage, but hey, you always could put Justing Biber icon to do so).
But Google turned screw even further, banning more and more unethical advertising, aggressively weeding out IP violations and changing a market so new apps are barely promoted (sure there is new top apps sections but is buried below layers of other stuff in Google Play). In the same time existing user base was eroding and finally you were left with nothing.
Where we are today? Well new apps are undiscoverable - that is you upload a new app and you get 0 downloads, even relaying on shady activites (mp3 downloading, torrenting etc.) you can only do so much (your mp3 downloader had < 50k in two or three months which gives measly 500 downloads a day) and earnings are directly affected by usage and retention (with such saturated market eCPM will, and is, necessarily dropping, not to mention using some other monetization schemes like IAP where app quality is the key) so even if you manage to get decent downloads you will still end with next to nothing.
So to earn today you have to have decent quality apps (that alone usually require some investments or you end with apps that are unbearably ugly and unstable). Then you have to market it, and this is one of the points that most of users here don’t understand that as an indie developer you can only do so much (and there’s no silver bullet). Probably no one here have budget big enough to even start seriously thinking about advertising, putting couple hundreds or even thousands won’t do a shit, you simply cannot out-bid big players. So what’s left?
Cross promotion obliviously, but what if you don’t have user base? Then you have to have good app, not decent - good, either addictive game, well polished functional utility or something unique so you can use the specialist (android focused) blogs (either sponsored, free or mixed) and social networks push (arguably with latter you have to have really high quality niche app or addictive game). Quality of application is really important since retention and usage is also factored as positioning signal so with better app your search (or keyword if you prefer) placement and cross-sell list position (which can be even better download sources than keywords) raises which in effect drives organic downloads.
Now, I do not intend to brag here but just to put some perspective to above lengthy comment here’s a bit about my background.
I’ve started developing for android since inception (I’ve had original G1), at first it was more a hobby than a job but my moonlighting paid off and in 2009 I had few really good earning games (they were polished but unoriginal; one of them ending being suspended due to DMCA complaint couple years later). Since market was basically empty I earn a lot and left my day job to focus on development. In about three years I’ve earn in total around $300k but at the end of 2012 with my best earning game gone and rest of them dwindling (in part due to influx of spam in market) I bite a bullet, sell them for $20k and start developing complex highly polished niche utility app. I’ve spend 16 months developing it plus north of $30k on design, graphics, translations and outsourcing (those not including me living for 16 month with no income whatsoever) and marketing, but it paid off: this application (monetized exclusively via IAP) earned $350k in total till today (it’s still pulling $200/day) and I’m currently working on new version (with brand new interface and features) which I’m rather optimistic about.
Neither of above sums are stellar but they are still more (even including 16 months hiatus) that I could have earn having normal job and what’s more important it means that I’ve been living exclusively off application income for more than 7 years already so I’m rather well versed in inner workings of android development and marketing.
No, I think your analysis is wrong. There are still niches for crap apps too. Just mp3 downloader niche was overtaken by some bigger spammer with cross promotion who don’t even need to show sreens (he have icons in this place). But belive me, I found many niches and as I see on appbrain, their downloads dynamics is great. Thats why I was selling mp3 downloader here and now unpublished the app completly. I found something better. (Downloader had 500-1k/download a day, last week fallen to <300>). I resigned because new, legal niche have 1k/day peer app, with 50 made clones, i’m close to 50k.
Now it’s changed, when I take over this niche, I will going to find another one.
Your analysis is good for somebody who is making his app (again music player, again 2d game, again puzzle or 2048) but not for somebody who is looking for market trends. Last month trend was pokemon go, I not used this niche but people who made guides for this game, done with 1-5mln, even 10-50mln downloads. Google not banned these guides. Out of app advertising is still possible but you have to know how.
App undiscoverable? Yes, if you make app and call it “ram cleaner”, “radio”, “music player”, “super hiper duper game”, yes then you will be not discovered.
Well said, I think you touched most of the points in my thoughts. Keep up the good work.!
Downloads are only one factor - even with sizeable downloads numbers earning are still directly dependent on retention. Or I put it that way: how much have you been earning from this 500 downloads per day? Now assuming you pull this 50k (which I very much doubt) then multiply it by 20 at most (since you are not aiming at single app you will have 50 apps with overlapping audience which will effect in shitty retention and usage for every one of them). Now as I said earlier my app still pulling $200, and bear with me, I’m managing to do so with only 1k downloads (and in peak I was making $600 with 1.5k downloads). That’s why I’m saying that you don’t get it: downloads don’t matter if you have shitty conversion.
What you are talking about are quick cash grabs (exploiting free rides via IP violation or breaking TOC both can result in ban and former one last only so long). Could one earn some quick money exploiting market? Sure. Such activities cannot be completely eliminated. But making living out of it? Impossible. Assume you got very lucky and grabbed $30k (which is highly unlikely) then what? Sure it’s nice pile of money but not enough to fuel any serious endeavor. You can of course wait for next opportunity hoping it happens rather sooner then latter, but say next time you catch wind you only manage to earn $5k. There is a word for it: sustainability (or in this case: unsustainability).
Have I said that? No. What I’ve been saying that the only organic download drivers are search and cross-sell, both of which factors quality (via retention and usage).
These quick cash grabs as you called it, it’s the only way nowadays for indie to get cash-fuel for something more serious. Even this $30k (mp3 downloader niche was similar, It allowed to make 30k$/single month, ban and come back with new one) is important for indie dev.
If you can make app, you put this 30k$ in some CPI, reviews, etc. to make next cash grab bigger. Ofcourse not for living from this.
I have a big project (not app) what demands cash fuel and secondary (app) for car mechanics (not published but testing it with new car models costs $ to rent it for 1 hour). Apps are good way to load these projects with fresh bucks.
Retention is not only factor to earn bucks. You can display out of app but you need to know how to not get banned. I mastered this and ill not share for any dollar. To get retention required for google position (not monetization) is simple trick. Just open an app at night when user is sleeping for 2 minutes and close it (it have to be launcher activity). It’s my library “retention maker”, everyone can do that and trick algorithm.
Except I specifically explained why it isn’t ($30k is not enough for serious app development and I really don’t see what other serious business it could bootstrap). Moreover one time cash grab of $30k is hardly possible but counting on it happening repeatedly is just stupid, you can as well try to live off gambling.
Well, maybe it’s me but above seems to be you planning to making living off this quick cash grabs. And it’s working for you? Because it definitely seems not to. And I’ve just explained why.
Haven’t been banned yet. And when you will, this code will be indexed, fingerprinted and added to bouncer database.
Regardless whether it works or not you are talking about usage (engagement), you can do shit if user uninstalled your app. Retention on Android is artificially inflated because it’s f*cking hard to uninstall app.
You see in early days user could uninstall app via app manager settings page only - which meant that, in vast majority once installed app stayed that way forever (or until device ran out of storage).
Then there was uninstall via market - better but still too complicated. Samsung introduced uninstall via launcher menu, then some other OEMs via drag’n’drop but there were still caveats - dragging from home screen only removed launcher icon not application itself.
With each iteration it’s easier and easier to delete app (for example GNL introduced direct uninstall from home screen via launcher shortcut d’n’d few months ago) and this of course affect retention.
30k is enough, depends to your country rates. Here it’s enough to hire good developer for 10 months.
You should probably read a bit more closely:
I’ve spend 16 months developing it plus north of $30k on design, graphics, translations and outsourcing (those not including me living for 16 month with no income whatsoever) and marketing
So it seems you are about $40k short. Note that my app while complex is hardly huge, code base is about 250k LOC. Moreover this is not unique experience I have quite extensive contact list of mobile developers and 10+ months + several ten of thousands for expenses for successful app or game is common.
Sure you can hope for smash hit a’la Flappy Bird but honestly its luck (fortunate coincidence if you prefer) than anything else. I’m not dismissing Flappy Bird qualities, quite contrary, those were vital for it being so successful, what I’m saying that stellar success of that game was and effect of several factors that you can account for, you can hope for it but you cannot plan on it (on the other side you have Supercell which spend several millions of dollars over two year of development and one quite spectacular failure to get to Clash of Clans).
We should finish this discussion. I’m living from android apps for 2011, not even tried regular job. Shithole for me means that i’m not earning 15-20k$/month but 3-4k$. I will do my job, you can do yours. Thats all
That’s quite interesting given that by your own admission you’ve earned something north of $300k which gives $5k/mo (and this revenue includes the ‘golden era’ time period when earnings where fueled by PPD advertising schemes).
I piggybacked on this thread just to put some perspective as a lot of users (including but not exclusive you) seems totally clueless. Hence recent posts like ‘Android advertising is dead’, ‘Low income’, ‘Dropping eCPM’ and alike. But hey if you (or anyone else for that matter) think can reproduce this great ‘money for nothing’ gold mine, go for it. I just simply pointed out why it isn’t and will not be working.
This makes me happy knowing that you only ended up with $300k and likely squandered away a significant portion of that money. You’re a terrible, terrible human being with a history of scamming, lying, and deception. You’re the kind of person who would (if you haven’t already) screw over friends and family for money.
This analysis is largely accurate. All of the lucrative niches are already dominated by a small number of developers with huge user bases.
There are some kinds of apps which can make new developers some money such as game guides for new games (eg. Pokemon Go), but these apps have very low retention rates and as a result, you won’t be making life changing money. Probably barely enough to live in.
Also it should be noted that downloads for many categories, such as utility apps, will continue to decrease in wealthy, developed countries (ie. countries with good ecpm’s). This is because users in these countries already have a go-to app for whatever task they are trying to accomplish. The median user in a wealthy, developed country downloads very few new apps nowadays.
Life is still pretty good for those who dominate a lucrative niche. I’m one of them. Here’s some data from FAN (which is only about 1/3 of my ad revenue): http://i.imgur.com/824lBeG.png
My advice to new developers would be to make a very high quality game and get it published by one of the major publishers. They will be able to pump your app so it’s in the Top lists.
Ouch, that hurts, really. Thank you for you review of my person. I decided to go silence and just observe the forum. btw. really nice stats, honest congratz… ill print your stats and hang on monitor.
I actually started developing Android apps around the same time you were spamming fake “internet accelerator” apps. I decided to make high quality legitimate apps instead and slowly became the top apps for many search queries. Meanwhile, your fake “internet accelerator” apps and all of your other spam was removed from Google Play. Fast forward 5 years, I’m worth tens of millions, and you are worth less than $300k.
I think the lesson to be learned here is that it’s better to be honest and legitimate.
I would suggest you take a long hard look at yourself. Not in a mirror though, because you’re hideous, but internally.
Also, please delete your fake makingmoneywithandroid accounts such as RadioTurk, Johan, etc. It’s really bad you’re using these fake shill accounts to trick new users into buying your shit.
Thank you.
…and you are the honest and legitimate to insulting others with some “hideous” and braging that you are worth ten of millions - interesting, I’m interested to if you have brave to tell me the same in real world. I have you deeply in my ass and i’m going to shit out you today. Hovewer, your advice is good, thank you for that and now ill focus on myself only, not forum things or selling solutions. Good bye man
Amazing numbers. Congratz. Btw you have really low ecpm…
I brought up the numbers because I wanted to make my argument more real. To remind you specifically what you missed out on.
Yes honesty is good. I honestly think your face is hideous. I don’t even know what compelled you to upload your photo. No one wants to see that shit.
die fckin shit, i hope you get ultimate brain cancer, i tried to be kind but die
