10 apps banned because of PingJam

Unfortunately this is becoming more and more just part of being an android developer. We are an Australian Development house, that lost over 30 casion related games over the weeknd. The worst part is, we stopped all production to update our entire network of 500 apps to meet all google policies, mainly removing airpush from all our apps. Our casino games has tested Pingjam only for 1 month and bout 3 months ago, we removed all sdk and all traces of pingjam. But only apps that had pingjam on them have been removed. Been in contact with google head office in Sydney getting passed around from one manager to another, each one says send an email…an email! Over the last couple of years we have spent over $100,000 in inapp paid fees to google alone. And there is just no one to talk to. You could all and try and sue pingjam, but seeing as from the email i recieved this morning, they are shutting down their system anyway, so no revenue for them either, so you wont recieve anything. The really bs thing about this, is that google keeps designing their automated service so you need to custom build apps for google play. We used to use airpush on google play and a couple of other markets, when google play banned push notifications, ad companies followed, as if they only design their platforms for google play, so basically you will always lose, as google makes the rules and advertisers follow - thing is google is allowed to change the rules any moment it likes. I really understand and feel for all of your that lose your livelihood and your lives. Especially those that thought everything was going so great that they decided to go it full time. We are already updating and modifying all our packages for release, but this would be much harder for a small developer, especially one that was relying on that income.

A little note we left for any google employees on google+

"Anyone who works at +google read this and do something instead of sending automated emails and 0 way to contact anyone at Google, if you work at google and ignore this your not doing your job, which is unbelievable since google knows that google developers are losing there accounts right now over an automated code scanning tool which has malfunctioned, developers are stuck with no contact, no accounts which are there full time jobs which feed their kids, pay for schooling & pay rent.

No matter what you can’t talk to a live person, they send you automated emails, if you try to call there office they said send another email, requests, even the Sydney Google Office ignores your calls and tells you nothing can be done except sending another email and receiving another automated response. (even though this is against Australian Fair Trading policy which requires a contact person to respond to any dealings with Australian stakeholders regardless if that company is a multinational billion dollar company that thinks its above people and doesn’t have phone support.

Developers used to love developing for Google, if you talk to any google developers now there opinion of Google has dissipated to outright disgust since trying to request any support or help from google

The email from CEO Pingjam

"Since yesterday we’ve received several reports of apps which use Pingjam and other ad SDKs being removed from the Play Store, citing violation of the “System Interference” clause (Google Play).
I’m writing to explain what we are doing to deal with this situation.
First I’d like to assure you that the Pingjam SDK hasn’t behaved in any way that violates the policy. No changes have been made to the device without the user’s consent, and banned ad methods (icons, notifications etc) weren’t used by us in any case.
Our primary concern is that developers aren’t hurt, so although we are certain that our system is compliant, we’ve disabled the Caller ID service until further notice. As of yesterday none of our apps display caller ID or ads.
We are working tirelessly to reach out to Google developer relations to investigate the apps removal, but since this is the weekend our ability to create a meaningful conversation is limited. I assure you that if indeed we verify that Pingjam was the reason for this we will let you know. Our goal is to help fix the situation so that apps are restored with their install base and ratings.
In the meantime, as a precaution, I’d like to suggest to those of you that haven’t lost apps that you remove our SDK from your apps and republish.
Those of you that have lost apps - we are working very hard to try to understand and resolve this with you. Let’s share what we learn so that we can help the community get their apps back. Please share what you are doing in regards to communicating with Google. Hopefully we can identify a best practice that helps us all.

Link to Google’s appeal page - https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/contact/appappeals (MOST USELESS LINK)

I will keep you posted on our progress.
Elnor"

Oh and back in the old day if an account got terminated, you at the end of the month you would still recieve the revenue you made untill that day. NOT ANYMORE, all developers that lost accounts and were expecting payment on the 16th. Google now KEEPS ALL REVENUE STILL IN TERMINATED ACCOUNTS…

How is this LEGAL

You create the digital product, you place on their store for sale, you make sales and google keeps 30% of all your sales. EXCEPT in the case were your account can be terminated, without cause, and google then keeps ALL REVENUE from ALL YOUR SALES - 100% of your Revenue goes to google and you keep nothing. No the users dont get a refund on their app, no thier google play account is not credited, google just STEALS THE DEVELOPERS INCOME and locks them out with no customer support or contact

This MUST BE ILLEGAL

so be warned, until you ACTUALLY recieve revenue on the 15-16th of Each month, then you dont have anything, because you could lose your account on the 14th, and google will steal your revenue.

@Kangle

Totally 100% agree with everything you said.
It fills me with such rage as to how Google treats us developers, big or small.

For example, I have not been able to log into my Admob account for 3 weeks now. Its an issue with the new system and I always get redirected to a broken page when I log in.
I have spent the last 3 weeks trying to get the issue sorted and have sent many e-mails back and forth, all replies from them being days and days apart. Meanwhile I have NO control over my account and all the traffic that’s going through their networks. I’ve needed to alter traffic sources, add new apps and keep an eye on different tweaks I’ve been running etc etc, but due to the absolutely pathetic nature of their support I am still totally unable to do any of that.

They insist they are working on it and that somehow it’s a “complex issue”… A simple broken re-direct linked to my account on their server is NOT a hard thing to fix.

BOTTOM LINE:
Google just doesn’t give a shit about anyone as long as they are making as much money as possible.

YOU GOT IT EXACTLY - Google just doesn’t give a shit about anyone as long as they are making as much money as possible

At 11:30 today i decided i couldn’t deal with this terrible support services and ignored emails, and i needed to talk to a person from google about this.

I called the Sydney Google Office on Country Cod +61 02 9374 4000, which is located at 5/48 Pirrama Rd Pyrmont NSW Sydney,

after 3 phones calls, as following the prompts for services for google play gets you to “Google Sydney does not support google play” and then hangs up.

Eventually by directly pressing 8 to get to a Reception, i was able to talk to a human being at google. Unfortunately…it did not go well.

The reception refused to pass me on to …anybody actually, not her supervisor, not her manager, no one. This receptionist, refused to give me her name, her supervisors name, or to direct me to any other person in the organisation, refused to do anything or forward me to anyone else, her only response was to send an email even though i had informed her that i had already tried that avenue, sent 100’s of emails with not 1 SINGLE RESPONSE.

When i asked her what her name was she said “You have called reception,” i informed her i was aware i called reception and i was asking her name for my documentation. She said her name was “RECEPTION”. It would seem that some wierd parent decided to name their kid reception. I informed her of trade place laws and that i was a Australian company that was using Google services and if that is their head office then she has to help. She refused, and insisted that the only way to do this is to contact this email address and they will forward it to the correct person inside Google.

I know its a reach but yeah if that the procedure, i would recommend sending all your enquiries and requests to

[email protected]

I would also start the emails with

“Dear Sydney Google Receptionist with no Name”

for adding value, i would also cc in the following

[email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

Google doesn’t give a shit about you if you are a spammer. They dealt with spam for years on web. If they start taking call from everyone that calls, Every one with a website will be calling to figure out why their website is not on the top search result :slight_smile:

The only way you get attention is by raising voice in public forums. Which you can’t do since you are shady to start with (The fact that you can’t even mention your company name in a public forum speaks volumes).

Please stop throwing blame on someone else. When you chose to use Shady ad networks, you brought this on yourself.

BillyH, i completely understand what you mean, nothing shady going on here.

Airpush and Pingjam may have been a little intrusive but still met all the google policies. Google recently changed these policies, so we updated our entire network removing all airpush and pingjam, but still lost the accounts that had updated to meet all the polices. Tell you the truth Airpush was what ruined push notifications by not limiting it to one ad per day.

Maybe this was going off track, but what this is about is the terrible terrible service from google and all google related products and services

Everything is automated, the computer decides if your app meets all the rules, if the system makes a mistake, there is absolutely no going back. Automated removal with no chance of coming back…this is a billion dollar industry we are talking about.

I read today that youtube alone made $4 billion in revenue over 2012…since last week when we try to log into youtube we get this,

"500 Internal Server Error

Sorry, something went wrong.

A team of highly trained monkeys has been dispatched to deal with this situation.

If you see them, show them this information:"

Actually we are a legit business, Enlightened Apps.com not sure if we can link on this forum.

I posted on these issues of Google unresponsiveness some time back (search for “Kafkaesque”).

Basically Google is absent from their side of the business relationship. Granted, that Google RELIES on the “long tail” (or more charitably, deigns to deal with the long tail of website/developers - which AUTOMATICALLY requires that Google NOT place any human into that equation from Google’s end).

This is all understandable.

However, there needs to be better responsiveness on this issue - if anything perhaps there needs to be a human voice at Google responsible for developer affairs for android (at least).

I have not used push notification ads, or ads which I thought were intrusive (and I have no ability to sell paid apps - thanks to Google slowness - how is Apple able to do it ???) - YET I understood that some developers needed to use “innovative” ads - and ad networks are trying to be creative about ad revenue generation - I have seen it as a WELCOME addition to the android space - because it allows for innovation and for some new thing perhaps to emerge which is better for both user and developer.

This is unlike some trolls here like “billyh” who ALWAYS choose to err on the side against developers and for Google (as if Google can do no harm). Either he is coming from a Google background or has links there. But such access has not allowed him to make any helpful suggestions either.

My main thesis in this regard is that EVEN those who think they are following Google Policy remain unsure about the status of their “compliance” (you hear of developer stories, but little from Google). That there is an air of “sword hanging over your head” - which is exacerbated by the “3 strikes you are out” type of smug response at Google. The part which is especially egregious is that there is NO INSIGHT into the appeals process - it is as if the complainant is talking to a brick wall. It is as if there is a court trial in which YOUR defence is NOT given access to all the documents presented at trial (something not allowed in real courts). The ostensible reason for such secrecy is that Google CANNOT divulge the exact reasons as it exposes it’s business practices. This argument will not hold in court - if there is a burden to operating the business this way, it falls on Google NOT on the developer (who has had no part in formulating those business processes).

The situation requires some type of legal solution - either a complaint to the EU (or whoever has demonstrated actions against Google). As it stands, however, the developer community is divided (many choosing to think that their fellow developers’ folly benefits them - which is probably true to some extent - but it is not right for long term as it relies on Google being utterly trustworthy (no entity can ever remain fully trustworthy - as the slippery slope beckons anyone who traipses with abandon as Google is doing).

EDIT: what makes the “3 strikes and your are out” and “you can NEVER EVER do business as an android developer again” type of punishments are made especially harsh because Google HAS THE ABILITY to track individual - they way they are monitoring “uniqueness of developer” - by associating one developer with another using their IP, or some other characteristics (which MAY include leveraging their insight from Google the search company which is ubiquitous) makes for chilling behavior. NO COMPANY should have the power to leverage the information they collect on users to use it as a censoring or labelling mechanism in SOME OTHER part of their business. As it stands - we have had cases (like that “furioussoftware” guy) who had multiple developer accounts - the way Google handles that is problematic as it does not EXPLAIN how it is going to formalize such type of aggregation or bans - this info is kept secret EXACTLY for protection of business methods - but this is exactly the info that should be public so the landscape is visible to developers.
Second choice is some type of “failedcompany.com” type of website where developers post their horror stories - if anything this will be bad publicity for Google, and raises the cost of misbehavior (slightly).

The main point is that developers feel powerless in the current situation - if they do not organize, no one else will come to their aid.

we need Matt Cutts of google play in here!

Funny…:slight_smile:

I didnt read this whole thread (or threads on this subject), but it is fairly clear to me now on why the bans on PingJam happened. Did you see the new Android 4.4 (KitKat) feature?

"Caller ID by Google
Screening your calls just got a whole lot easier! Even if you don’t already have a number saved in your contacts, Caller ID by Google can help you identify who’s calling. "

Just because Google has a feature it implemented to Android does not validate mass banning of a 3rd party SDK. ALL of Google’s features for Android have alternatives in the Play Store.

It might be playing a factor, but there’s no way they can justify all those bans over a new feature available in their latest version update. I mean hardly anyone even has KitKat yet anyway!

I agree with the bans due to the spammy feeling of the feature, but I dont agree with Google banning over this new Android 4.4 feature. For me it’s clear (and smelly) that Google is doing this to simply kill the competition and make everyone use their own solution.

Maybe they have seen PingJam as real future competitor. And yes, is there any phone now with KitKat?

Google would never be stupid enough to put ads in your caller id, get a clue, it was a shitty ad model and I did use on users I didn’t really care whether they returned to the app but other than that it is ridiculously aggressive, probably more aggressive than notification ads. Getting a phone call is a very personal thing for most people and the last thing they want to see is an ad for tampons while they are getting a call from Pizza Hut. What happened was probably really fucking basic, a Google employee downloaded an app that had ping jam, got a call to come in early for work and said what the fuck is this. That’s how shit works in the real world, not usually sinister or premeditated but by accident. It is clear that Google has very little interest on being proactive when it comes to ad networks, they are reactive and that’s fine. Stop over analyzing shit and move on…damn I miss the mobario man, where the fuck is that dude, he was so entertaining!

Hiding in a bunker, air raid siren in the background, just waiting for Google’s bombers to sweep past. :smiley:

yeah, he used to be pumped full of so much positive energy, now nothing

Oh, and I’m pasting quote from mail that I received from Google:

If your account is still in good standing and the nature of your app allows for republishing you may consider releasing a new, policy compliant version of your app to Google Play under a new package name. We are unable to comment further on the specific policy basis for this removal or provide guidance on bringing future versions of your app into policy compliance.

What!? They are unable to comment further? Jeez, it’s like ‘We can tell You specifically why, but You’re out.’. Am I only one that interprets it that way?

They can´t comment on the specific policy basis? Are they kidding?

Unfortunately this is true. PingJam turned out to be that company we feared. We were going to remove their SDK on Monday after it sat there for 4 days. The irony of it all. I guess they are dead now, but we will definitely file a law suit. We were in the talks with them, but they do not seem to care much about the situation. I suggest the moderators of this forum to make a definite ban on PingJam on this website and maybe issue a statement on the front page that this network is not to be trusted. Whoever has more information about their operations let us know via PM so that we can see what court will be in charge for the case. They talk about State of Delaware and applicable United States laws, but all we can see is a domain in Israel. We will see what our lawyer in the States will say about their registration.

We are unable to comment further on the specific policy basis for this removal or provide guidance on bringing future versions of your app into policy compliance.

This is insane. It’s like they don’t want people to understand the policy fully and correctly. I think it’s something that might work in ad business for adsense/admob (we don’t tell you why you are banned so you don’t use it to abuse the system and for example keep CTR just below the ban level), but doesn’t have any sense in case of an app store.

We should sue Google as well in this case - Google misbehaved as well. The question is: will this change anything?