Any problems with Swarms In app purchasing system?

Hello everyone:

Since i live in Chile, i can not register as a Google checkout merchant and therefore i can not sell apps nor offer in app purchases. But there are third party companies like Swarm, that offer in app purchasing systems. According to Google Plays policies that is no allowed (if i understood it right). I asked my Swarm agent and he told me they got plenty of clients currently using their in app purchasing systems and that they have not had any problem so far and that they “dont expect them in the future either”. To be honest, i didnt expect a different answer so that does not make me more confident about using it.

What about you guys, anyone knows about any experience with Swarms IAPs ?

Thank you!

Does Swarm IAP go through Play store? If not - it is not allowed. I don’t remember how it works unfortunately. Do people pay money to buy Swarm coins (or whatever currency they use) through Play store or Paypal or sth?

I think that there is a why to get paid through adsense for Google play sales. Otherwise, maybe get a bank account in another country?

The billing system is Google wallet, but i dont think the payment goes through the Play Store (how can i know this?) , considering that: Users pay $20 for 1520 coins and me as a developer get $0.01 for every coin spent on my game. If Swarm is paying 30% to the Play Store, they would be making $14 and paying me $15.2. On the other hand, the equation makes sence if users buy smaller amounts of coins: 50 for $1 , 130 for $2 …

I would also need a credit card, dont think i can manage to do that… maybe in an Argentinian bank… but i wouldnt put a cent in there :wink:

I’m also considering to use Swarm’s IAP for the same reason. I think Swarm’s Virtual Store doesn’t violate Google’s policy because they are using Google Wallet for their payment system. It will violate Google’s policy if they are using paypal or other payment system. However, my concern about swarm is:

  1. Is it okay to use only their Virtual Store without using their leaderboard / achievment? I want to use Google Play Game Services for these.
  2. I think the conversion (free user to paying user) will be smaller if we are using Swarm’s Virtual Store compared to Google Play’s In App Billing since you have to register to Swarm first before you can buy coins. Does anyone have some data about this?

On a side note, how do you contact your Swarm Agent? I did not find any contact form on their website.

  1. Yeah it is ok, i do have virtual coins without using the leaderboards or any other service.
  2. I think you are right. My personal experience is that after 8000 downloads, only 1 person spent swarm coins.

1 paying user from 8000 downloads is very discouraging. Is it a game or an app? I wonder if the percentage is similar with Google’s In App Billing.

For 2k downloads I have maybe 1 sell with Google IAP. +/- 1 :wink:

For comparison (and this probably varies by app and how the developer positions the “paid content” i.e. makes it seem like a chore or a favor to the user and all that i.e. basically marketing which developers are notoriously bad at i.e. at bullshitting users or more positively to have a fine sense of what user wants etc.).

In any case, with GetJar I have seen about $2 or so for about 5000 DAU (daily active users). Though I wasn’t exactly a whiz in the marketing dept as my above comments would have betrayed.

Regarding Swarm - I too have an interest in finding in-app solutions - here is what I could dig up - maybe new for some here:

  • Swarm is linked to Tapjoy - their user agreement mentions Tapjoy and seem to be owned by Tapjoy

Regarding guests (instead of forcing users to login to Swarm) - don’t know what this means in terms of user experience, but here’s something:

Swarm :: Documentation

Can users login without an account? Do you support Guests?
Absolutely! By default, Swarm is configured to only allow non-Guest users. Guest accounts have a lower retention rate, and frequency of use than full accounts. However, if you’d like to enable Guests to login, all you need to do is:

// Allow guest accounts
// Call before calling Swarm.init(…)
Swarm.setAllowGuests(true);

How do you guys at Swarm make money anyway?
Swarm is completely free for developers to use, and we intend to keep it that way. You’re welcome to implement as many or as few features as you like without worrying about being charged if your app gets featured. We don’t charge a monthly subscription either! We make our money when users purchase items from your Virtual Store. When a user buys an item, we collect a small percentage of the transaction in exchange for providing you with an easy way to sell goods to your users. It’s really that simple.

adding Swarm:

Swarm :: Documentation


Swarm - adding a Virtual Store:

Swarm :: Documentation

Doesn’t give an indication how stuff is being charged …

I tried to find some apps which use Swarm … but didn’t search too deeply - found some with leaderboards etc. but none with in-app demo etc.

EDIT: Completely rewrote this post …

GetJar/Tapjoy could EASILY offer a cash payment solution for developers who don’t have access to Google Payments etc. in their location.

Right now developers in such locations CANNOT monetize “whales” i.e. cannot have users pay $100 etc. for features/coins for games etc.

Although there are always some offers on Tapjoy for “Buy Skype credit” or such - which ARE in a way cash payments - and these earn large amount of Tapjoy coins.
But these are usually for services OUTSIDE the interest of the developer at that moment.
EDIT: corrected - “interest of the user”

What Tapjoy etc. should do is release a paid app on Google Play called:

“Pay $1 for 10K coins”

Just like many game developers do …

Tapjoy could then place this app always at the top of the OfferWall - so users who REALLY want to buy a ton of Tapjoy coins can just buy that app.

Google would get their 30% cut - and Tapjoy could negotiate some more equitable split so it benefits Tapjoy as well.

This maybe a problem for Google in that it may make such apps the TOP SELLING ones - so for this Google would would have to supply an opt-out program where the seller of such “dummy” apps would indicate in the developer console that these are actually a “special” kind of app (and may have HUGE number of downloads NOT indicate of actually being related to some ONE app’s greatness).

Tapjoy could also have a separate OfferWall that has paid apps:

“Pay $1 for 10K coins”
“Pay $10 for 100K coins”
“Pay $100 for 1000K coins”

What this would allow is for developers to charge HUGE amounts (to address the “whales”).

Current Tapjoy offers just CANNOT leverage the “whales” because most offers are related to some user labor/work/effort (i.e. “Download and run this app”). Such effort CANNOT scale when you want to charge $100 (would require 1000 app downloads etc.).

Basically CASH has a value density that is WAY beyond anything else (just like petrol has an energy density that cannot be rivalled by battery power that easily) - essentially the WHALE market EXISTS because there is a demographic of users who HAVE THE CASH (which they may not have earned themselves, their father is a mafia don or whatever, or corrupt third world official or rich exec in Silicon Valley).

The WHALE user is PRECISELY the one who DOESN’T want do the effort - in fact the whole “whale” monetization model is dependent on a perception that the user can “cheat” his way ahead because of their special access to cash - i.e. they don’t have to “stand in line” like the plebes - and can rush ahead just because they have cash.

So the whale model essentially is a pandering (and a leveraging of the psychology) of the rich elite.

Precisely for this reason you CANNOT expect a user to earn $100 by working to download 1000 “Download and run this app” - as that defeats the purpose - a “whale” wouldn’t do that - as that “requires work” (when they have plenty of cash they are willing to pay instead to AVOID such work).

So by Tapjoy having plenty of HIGH PRICED apps available for download (suitably blocked out from Google “best selling apps” list - by informing Google of such) - would allow developers to leverage the “have cash but don’t want to wait with the plebes” demographic (i.e. the “whale” demographic).

Currently developers in non-Google-Payment-supported locations cannot charge $100 etc. EVEN if they have great features or a great game. But a Tapjoy addition like above could change things for everyone.

GetJar was CLOSE to this with their integration of Google Payment - BUT it was restricted to the app developer offering GetJar coins in lieu of payment - however the value of that was you could potentially earn the coins (by paying cash) in “Cut the Rope” app - and then the user could spend it in your app. However even that is a complication - as a simpler solution would be that the “paid app” which is the conduit for the transaction actually be a GetJar “paid app” on Google Play - which any one could buy.

Since that seems like a SIMPLER solution, I don’t see WHY it has not been implemented - and I suspect the real reason maybe that Google was just being wary of such stuff and may not have given it’s approval for such stuff (i.e. basically it is nothing to Google as it doesn’t harm them - but WHY should they do so … so unless there is developer clamor for Google to be responsive on Google Payments they maybe under no pressure to move). Further reducing the pressure maybe that the majority of developers who are of any size WOULD have ability to situate in Google Play supported countries.

But it still leaves out the small developer from this market.